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Thomas Guldner
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Fires in ship yards
I have been providing marine firefighting training to both land-based firefighters and mariners. I also provide this training to fire brigades within ship yards and ship building facilities.
I'm looking for case studies and reports from any previous fires in these locations.
Posted: 10/9/2009 12:13:33 PM
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Joe Berta
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RE:Fires in ship yards
This fire could not be handled and was allowed to burn itself out. The firemen were very brave placing themselves in such positions where they could use the pressure of their hoses to sweep the gasoline burning on top of the water away from another row of boats across from the fire:
Fire at Holland River Marina ©
Posted: 2/27/2010 10:41:25 AM
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Thomas Guldner
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RE:Fires in ship yards
Hi Joe,
Fires in "covered marians" are some of the most fast moving and therefore the most difficult to extinguish. See the article, "Marina Fires, we've got ya covered" on my website newsletter at http://www.marinefirefighting.com/Pages/Newsletters/Newsletter12.htm
Posted: 2/27/2010 2:41:59 PM
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jamie hawke
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RE:Fires in ship yards
Hi I have been in the Safety Safety training environment since 1989. I have taught at the NZ Navy Fire Figting school when not serving on Navy Ships.
When posted to Samoa for 2 years as a Technical Adiser there ship had Hi Fog system installed. Easy to maintain, recharge and yet so effective as a ship fitted system.
When fighting fires using Hi Fog it extinguishes fires (Fire Triangle) by Smothering and COOLING. An excellent medium to extinguish fires. When compared with older systems like Halon 1301 or CO2.
On the subject of balconies on cruise ships a simple sprinkler system installed in all cabins which activates automatically when heat is detected will give a good early responce to fires in Cabins. Like in buildings ashore the same set-up for cruise ships could be installed. Fitting a sprinkler head on the balcony will also assist with Boundary Cooling and containing the fire to the cabin area until the sprinkler system extinguishes all fires.
A simple sprinkler system is cost effect relatively easy to install yet a very good first responce to a fire/heat detected.
Posted: 3/11/2010 4:56:06 AM
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Thomas Guldner
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RE:Fires in ship yards
Hi Jamie,
I couldn't agree more, especially about the "High Fog". A recent fire aboard the M/V Star Princess (http://www.marinefirefighting.com/Pages/Newsletters/Newsletter%2018.htm) showed the value of Hi Fog systems.
The fire originated on a balcony and spread to three decks and damaged more than 280 cabins. Although the fire did enter these cabins it was mostly contained there due to the activation of the ships Hi Fog system.
Sprinklers are required in new builds but the High Fog system really proved itself at this fire.
Thanks for your input. Luckily ship fires are rare. But that also means that marine firefighters are forced to rely on training and study of past fires rather than extensive experience.
Hopefully we can exchange information here which may help save a life in the future.
All the best and stay safe.
Tom Guldner
"A calm sea never made a skilled mariner"
Posted: 3/11/2010 11:06:28 AM
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jamie hawke
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RE:Fires in ship yards
I went to the link interesting reading (#18)
I am currently serving on a ship and Damage Control Training is a daily event for me.
The design of modern ships, the materials used, technology used to support most ship emergencies one thing is obvious unless you are the technical person working with this systems on a daily basis will have good system knowledge, but what about the other members of the crew?
I have found over the years this is easily rectified by conducting what I call circuit training. Using lessons learnt like the article above and incorporating that knowldge into the training is a very good learning tool.
A good example is I will take the chef onboard for a walk through the ship. After showing them fixed system for certain compartments, how they are activated, carry out touch drills the confidence is improved 10 fold. This is because they are now more competent. I use a term "Know Your Ship" and in this day and age it is so important. If I were a shipping company owner I know I would be more confident in my crew if I new that all members of the crew had better ship knowledge and not just rely on the engineer?
Some might argue ahhh but the activation is automatic and some systems are. Some are also remotely activated. Then I believe that all the crew should know where the remote activation is and the manual backup if the remote fails.
Containment of fires is another area which if done well will limit the spread of damage/fire/smoke. Monitoring the boundaries or cooling them if due to heat the metal starts to conduct heat and unless cooled the fire will spread to the next compartment. Unless good containment is established which means good ship knowledge:
What is adjacent to the fire
trunking
hazards and dangers in these areas,
correct isolations and closing down.
Are just some of the factors that will effect the ship and crews ability to deal with the fire.
Smoke is the killer in fires. The Faulklands war in 1982 supports this. Warships on fire, crew trapped inside the ship were overcome by smoke. Again good ships knowledge, good training, good understanding of shipbourne fires and the nature of fires saved ships and crew.
Posted: 3/11/2010 5:32:29 PM
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Thomas Guldner
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RE:Fires in ship yards
Hello Jamie,
Unfortunately, not all ships officers have the same interest in training that you show. Proof of this can be found whenever some ships pull into a port. After docking they conduct their mandatory “fire drill”.
Many times this “drill” only consists of a hose line being stretched to the bow and water sprayed over the side for thirty minutes.
This would be good training for a fire that is 40 feet off the bow of your ship. Unfortunately that is not where most ship fires occur. When a real fire does occur in a machinery space or galley area the crew is not prepared. No personal protective equipment or masks were worn and at the end of this “drill” no one has learned anything.
The number of casualty reports which indicate a failure of the crew to don proper firefighting equipment or their lack of knowledge of the fixed extinguishing systems shows that drills are not taken seriously on some vessels.
Fire drills are mandatory, so why not have realistic drills which may actually educate the crew and also keep their interest. With a little bit of planning a realistic fire scenario can be planned. And don’t do the same scenario at each drill. If you always stretch a hose line to the galley than the problems which may be encountered at an engine room fire will not be discovered. Variety is the spice of life. Make each drill as realistic as possible and also pertinent to the type of ship you are on.
Also, don all firefighting equipment and check it for serviceability. Are all of the air tanks completely full? Is any equipment missing or defective? Are the extinguishers fully charged? Are the batteries in the flashlights (torches) charged?
You mentioned the importance of isolating and containing the fire and then using “Boundary Cooling”. These are vital first steps in any ship fire. Several ship fires extinguished themselves by either consuming all combustible material in an enclosed space or by the fire consuming enough oxygen in the space to prevent the fire to continue. Closing all watertight doors and monitoring the six sides surrounding the fire area (top, bottom and 4-sides) can either accomplish this or allow you time to set up an effective fire attack.
I have visited a few vessels where only two crew members from the engineering department knew the use of the CO2 system. When I questioned the Chief Engineer about this he informed me that he didn’t want anyone else to have that knowledge because they might activate the system while engineering crew were still in the engine room.
While I understood his concern I mentioned that before the CO2 would discharge a warning would be sounded allowing all engine room staff to evacuate. I also informed him that several times the reason for the fire was an explosion in the engine room which had instantly killed everyone in that space.
Some deck officers should also be familiar with the operation this vital piece of equipment. At many fires the CO2 system was activated while several engine room openings remained open. (The stack flaps seem to be the most comon) The CO2 left the engine room as fast as the smoke. And once the CO2 is used, very often it is all used necessitating a very punishing and dangerous hose line attack on the fire. Your term, “Know Your Ship” is the key to an effective response to a ship fire.
Many ships do take their training seriously but often other chores may leave little time for drills. Someone must be designated as the ships safety and firefighting officer who will have time to develop and administer drills and maintain training records.
I’m sorry that I have made my response so long but this is a subject that I have devoted my life to.
Let’s keep up the dialog.
Stay safe,
Tom Guldner (FDNY ret.)
Marine Firefighting Inc.
www.marinefirefighting.com
A smooth see never made a skilled mariner
Posted: 3/11/2010 7:18:59 PM
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jamie hawke
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RE:Fires in ship yards
I see we speak the same language....You mention ships have to do the mandatory exercise. Some are good and some not so good. I too have been doing this type of training 21 years.
My question is; can you direct me or give me a contact that I can talk to about this topic of Sea Safety Training @ Sea?
This is an area I am passionate about and my research to date shows that there is no outside agency doing this training onboard. As you mention it is the responsibility of the ships Captain or a Ships Safety Officer to meet certain mandatory Sea Safety Training. Who is monitoring this training or quality controlling it?
Do you think I would be best talking to shipping companies. Ultimately it is there ships and I am sure I would like to have the peace of mind that the crew are competent and maintaining required standards. Or do you think insurance companies?
There are numerous training establishments world wide teaching the required Maritime Standard for Fire Fighting wearing BA and Sea Safety but there is no one offering this training at sea. Lets call it ongoing or follow up training.
Also who is looking at the whole ship organisation when it comes to managing a serious fire on a ship? Is anyone reviewing current procedures and advicing the shipping owners?
Is there specific training packages developed for members of the crew, from the person managing the incident to the person in BA on the end of the hose.
I am at sea next week my work email is graham.hawke@nzdf.mil.nz and would also like to keep the lines of communication open.
Posted: 3/11/2010 9:34:08 PM
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Thomas Guldner
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RE:Fires in ship yards
Hi Jamie,
Please go to my GROUP "Shipboard Firefighting" where I have posted a reply to you last question. I think it is better to discuss our subject there.
Posted: 3/12/2010 2:33:45 PM
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Thomas Guldner
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RE:Fires in ship yards
Hi Jamie,
Sorry It has taken so long to continue our correspondence. I was trying to set up our own Forum but was unable to and could get no help from the webmaster. We will have to continue any dialog here.
My thoughts and prayers go out to all of your contrymen who have been affected by the earthquake in your country. I hope that you were not personally affected.
Posted: 2/27/2011 5:37:55 PM
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